Bernard Morgan ties A5902 non-Breifne kin-groups to the Book of Ballymote

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ChrisMcLain132906
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Bernard Morgan ties A5902 non-Breifne kin-groups to the Book of Ballymote

Post by ChrisMcLain132906 »

Bernard Morgan emailed me the other day that he had come across a genealogy in the Book of Ballymote that seems to correspond with some of the groups I have set apart from those A5902+ "Breifne" kindreds, and that it's likely they were incorrectly noted as sons instead of descendants. Those groups being:

A5902>BY100917 FANNING is the confirmed lineage (O'Findan? O'Fionnan?)
A5902>FT130287 GORRY is the confirmed lineage (O'Guaire? Mac gCorra? Mac Gothraidh?)
A5902>FTC14661>FT101173 DUFFY is the confirmed lineage (O'Dubhthaigh)
A5902>FTC14661>FT195045 MURPHY is the confirmed lineage (O'Murchadha)

Translation of Ballymote's genealogy from paragraphs 927-931 of the Ui Briuin
"Brenaind son of Fearghna, had two sons, i.e. Baithin and Dubh da crich. Dubh da Chrich had six sons, i.e. Dubhthach, Dobran, Mael Bennachta, Murchadh, Guairi, and Fannan. From Dubhthach are descended the Ui Dubthaigh, from Murchadh are descended the Ui Murchadha, from Guairi are descended the Ui Guairi, from Fannan are descended the Ui Fandan. Baithin, son of Brenaind, had a son Maenach. Maenach had seven sons, i.e. Eochaid, the ancestor of the Tealach Eachath, Dunchadha, the ancestor of the Teallach Dunchadha, Finducan, the ancestor of the Ui Finducan, Braenan, Corcran, Ciarmac and Mael Duin- he was the worst of them because Dallan cursed him."

A second source from "Lives of the Irish Saints" recounts:
"Six sons of Dub-da-Crich renowned,
Dubthach, Dogran of the bright countenance,
Maelbennachtadh, beauteous Murchad,
Guaire, and Fannan of the curly hair."


Mr. Morgan's theory on descendants being misconstrued as sons is extremely valid. The Book of Magauran gives a lengthier line of ancestors for the Teallach Eachach all the way up through Samhradhain and also named Eochaid as a son of Maenach. However Dunchadha, although said to also be a son of Maenach is more likely a cousin to some degree, as the Teallach Eachach & Teallach Dunchadha lines diverge at Brenaind.

The Ballymote entries also reveal that the Breifne kindreds come from a more recent chiefly line, as Maenach mac Baithin was King of the Ui Briuin.
"The battle of Airther Seola, in which fell Marcán son of Tomán, king of the Uí Maine. Cennfhaeladh son of Colgu and Maonach son of Baithín, king of the Uí Briúin were the victors." The Annals of Tigernach give this as 653, However this date is much too early and has to be incorrect. It is more likely 753 if not later.
I think we can also probably figure that as all of the A5902 supposedly descend from two sons of Brenainn, that Brenainn probably is the A5902+ progenitor (it has always been unclear). A5902's birthyear is now roughly given as 689ad with a high degree of confidence, meanwhile FTC14661 (the SNP where Duffy and Murphy split) is 711ad. Could FTC14661 be Dubh da Crich? If so, then the Ui Fannain and Ui Guairi do not all split off from him and Brenainn could have had more sons, whose descendents were later aligned with Dubh da Crich.

I would like to say it's as easy as saying that it was the sons of Maenach m. Baithin that came to Breifne, however Annals of the Four Masters reveal
792. Cormac mac Dubh da Chrich, ri Breifni (King of Breifne); this might be the earliest historical reference to Breifne coming under sway of the Ui Briuin) and we could also probably say that Cormac was born somewhere around 750-770 and Dubh da Chrich 720-740. It could confirm Brenaind at the 690-710 which would jive with the A5902+ timeframe, and also show that the Annals of Tigernach entry of Maenach m. Baithin is very far off in 653.


Thank you Mr. Morgan!
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Ollam
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Re: Bernard Morgan ties A5902 non-Breifne kin-groups to the Book of Ballymote

Post by Ollam »

Chris,
Cennfhaeladh son of Colgu and Maonach son of Baithín, king of the Uí Briúin were the victors." The Annals of Tigernach give this as 653, However this date is much too early and has to be incorrect.
From Wikipedia:
Cenn Fáelad mac Colgan (died 682) was a King of Connacht from the Uí Briúin branch of the Connachta. He was of the branch which developed into the Uí Briúin Seóla, who were centred on Tuam in modern County Galway. He is the first member of this branch mentioned in the annals.

The first mention of Cenn Fáelad in the annals is in the year 653 when the ally of the Ui Fiachrach Aidhne, Marcán mac Tomaini, the king of the Ui Maine was slain in battle in Iarthair Seola by Cenn Fáelad and Máenach mac Báethíne of the Uí Briúin. In the Annals of the Four Masters it is Maenach who is referred to as chief of the Uí Briúin.

The next mention of Cenn Fáelad is in 663 when the Annals of Tigernach mention that he became king of Connacht in succession to Guaire Aidne mac Colmáin (died 663). The king lists such as that in the Book of Leinster also place his reign after Guaire. However, the Chronicum Scotorum mentions the death of Muirchertach Nár mac Guairi (died 668) as king of Connacht in 668. The annals also mention a certain Dub-Indracht mac Dúnchada as king of the Uí Briúin of Mag nAi in 666.

The last mention of Cenn Fáelad in the annals is in 682 when he was reputedly assassinated by Ulcha Dearg ua Caillidhe (also known as Redbeard) of the Conmaicne Cuile, a subject tribe of the Seóla region. Francis Byrne believed this killing was in response to the Uí Briúin policy of subjugation and annexation of subject tribal territories. Cenn Fáelad's descendants included the Muintir Murchadha and their chief, the O'Flaherty, through his son Amhalgadh, sometimes titled kings of Iarthair Connacht in the annals; and the Clann Cosgraigh, headed by McHugh, through Cenn Fáelad's son Dungalaigh.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenn_Fáelad_mac_Colgan
So the 653 AD date is the correct one. Further, Fergnóe was the brother of Dau Tengae Umae, who died ~500 AD. So again, the earlier dates are the correct ones. This means that R1b-BY3338 and R1b-A5902 likely occurred sometime ~550 AD, or so.

Also be careful with FTDNA clade age estimation dates, because they seem to give the date of the LAST variant in a clade phylogenetic node; and in a multiple variant node, this means the ORIGIN of the clade would be much earlier than the date FTDNA gives. R1b-A5902 has FIVE variants currently, so 5 variants X 60 years/variant = 300 years encapsulated in the R1b-A5902 phylogenetic node. Or ~300 years with only single sons per generation, or at least only line that appears to have survived.
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ChrisMcLain132906
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Re: Bernard Morgan ties A5902 non-Breifne kin-groups to the Book of Ballymote

Post by ChrisMcLain132906 »

Ah, good to know! thank you David
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Re: Bernard Morgan ties A5902 non-Breifne kin-groups to the Book of Ballymote

Post by Ollam »

Chris,

However, I forgot to mention that I do agree that in some of the early genealogies macc was used to mean descendant and NOT the literal son of. I suspect this is especially true of the early Uí Néill genealogies.
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